Discussion:
What is the name of your state?undefinedWhat is the name of your state? FLORIDA
I own a limited edition giclee (canvas reproduction numbered) by an Artist who's publishing company is in California. I purchased the piece from the publisher with a Certificate of Authenticity for the actual number of the Giclee. In this case 27/55 with 27 being the number I own of 55 pieces total in production. The certificate states the artist reserves the right to use the image number 27/55 to use on his reproductions of prints, coffee mugs, and whatever ETC. in the future. I am currently attempting to sell this item 27/55 which i own and have owned for 2 years on Ebay listing service. The artist in this case is Cao Yong a chinese nationalist who asked Ebay to remove my listing due to Copyright infringement and stated I could not use the image of my 27/55 that I took pictures of to post on the listing service for sale. I clearly stated and Pictured my piece 27/55 with Certificate of Authenticity and used no other image than that of the 27/55. My question is what part of ownership of the painting did i receive when consideration was given for the number 27/55. If I take a picture of my mercedes and list it with a listing service why does mercedes not call me and pull that listing. Obviously the posting of the image for the 27/55 was used to determine condition and correct identification. Why should this not fall under fair use I am not in the business of Commercial operations or especially since I am guaranteeing the conditon of the art and not Cao Yong at this point. Does the fact that Mr. Yong numbered the reproduced image infact alters the original piece that was copyrighted he certainly did not copyright number 27/55 he only states he reserves the right to use the image in future use. Surely the laws of copyright were written to prevent people recreating and selling as if theirs. Or most importantly profiting by others without the written permission of the owner. Why am I not the owner of the painting numbered 27/55. Everyone knows I did not paint it nor did i build my car and It just so happens to look just like a Mercedes. It also has a Vin number and my painting also has a 27/55 number. Clearly my car and my painting are individual and are for personal use of which I am entitled to. Why can I take a picture of one and sell and not another. I feel the artist is out of line here especially since he already profited from my piece and was willing to let me show everyone else number 27/55 with no cause of alarm. I only have One and there are only 55 and one original. Why the alarm??? DO I really own anything at all. What does my certificate provide me with anyway besides he is reserving his right to use image 27/55 in the future.
Thomas Why the BS the stupid thing is only worth 3000 any way
Answer:
All of this and yet you have not provided the only answer we would need to make a determiniation.
That is, what did eBay say about the situation?
Answer:
Florida,
Ebay said they would contact artist if i could not resolve with Artist and help me. That is a great answer since they pulled my listing before determining if a situation exist. They refunded my money (EBAY) and said try to resolve with artist first ,and they would allow me to list again if OK. That was all they said. Meanwhile the artist has not contacted me nor will Ebay 10 days ago?? Ebay said they were contacted by the Artist upset about numerous listings using his images to show items for sale. i understand that being a problem. Though i did not use his images from a website or from any of his publications or catalogs. I took pictures of my piece 27/55 which can be distinguished from the other 55 out there and I stated it and proved with Certificate. The only problem I have is no one is saying I did anything wrong except that other people were using images without permission?? Great !! I did not think I needed permission to use my 27/55 to represent itself for sale!! I do know I need permission to use any other images to sell my 27/55 and deem it self representing.
Thomas
Hey you guys are great if you need medical advice without ofcourse Hippa, the fact you are not a patient nor to you represent yourself to be one. All representations or warrants are fictional and are not to be confused with anyone or anything BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Answer:
You do not need permission to take a photograph of a piece of art that you own and use that photograph to try and sell the piece of art.
You would need permission if you were trying to sell the picture of the piece of art, but that's not what is going on here.
That doesn't mean that this is going to be easy to resolve, but it does mean that you are not in violation of any copyright laws...
Answer:
You know I never intentionally do anything wrong. I know why they called/emailed ebay to get me off. It was because i was selling my art to the public for about half of what they will sell the items today. They are hiding behind copyright laws to protect their vendors of their product. I own about 40 of these( various paintings) from this one artist. I need to get ebay to leave my postings up without the artist blowing me up with copyright crap. I purchased these 3 to 4 years ago and the value has increased exponentially. I understand they want to maintain a fixed priced market but come on. To threaten a third party to get me off because they think I am breaking price and devaluing the product. If I keep listing these they will continue to say I am violating copyright infringements. They know clients check Ebay to determine the popularity and market for different artist. Hence to determine the true value of art without the biasis market value determined by the Gallery or Broker representing the piece.
Thomas
Answer:
You know I never intentionally do anything wrong. I know why they called/emailed ebay to get me off. It was because i was selling my art to the public for about half of what they will sell the items today. They are hiding behind copyright laws to protect their vendors of their product. I own about 40 of these( various paintings) from this one artist. I need to get ebay to leave my postings up without the artist blowing me up with copyright crap. I purchased these 3 to 4 years ago and the value has increased exponentially. I understand they want to maintain a fixed priced market but come on. To threaten a third party to get me off because they think I am breaking price and devaluing the product. If I keep listing these they will continue to say I am violating copyright infringements. They know clients check Ebay to determine the popularity and market for different artist. Hence to determine the true value of art without the biasis market value determined by the Gallery or Broker representing the piece. Like I said above, there's no copyright problem here -- your problem is with eBay.
Now, to be fair to eBay: eBay, as we all know, is a multi-billion dollar company, as in deep pockets. If I were a copyright owner and I saw someone infringing on my copyrights on eBay, I would sue both eBay and the seller -- the seller for infringement, eBay for vicarious and contributory infringement -- that way I can actually collect on my judgment from eBay (because eBay and the seller will be joint and severally liable) and let eBay worry about collecting from the seller.
So what does eBay do? At the first hint that someone may be infringing a copyright (or patent or trademark), eBay removes it, thereby limiting any liability they might have. That's just good business sense on eBay's part. Now, the sellers might not be so happy -- lack of due process and all that stuff -- but eBay's a private company, they can make there own rules, and tough luck.
Unfortunately, as you have found, some copyright holders (and noncopyright holders) have discovered that just by alleging infringement, they can get a seller's page pulled down, and it's difficult for the seller to do anything about it. eBay doesn't have the resources to determine the merits of each case and anyway, determining infringement is the job of the courts.
Anyway, eBay is doing what they have to do to protect themselves. Maybe you can sell your items without a picture -- that would make it much more difficult to go after you for copyright infringement. Maybe you could host the pictures off-site somewhere with a link to them -- sure some buyers won't follow the link, but some will, and it's better than not having a sale at all I guess. Note -- I'm not that familiar with eBay's rules here, so I don't know if what I just suggested is kosher with eBay or not.